Unlocking Hidden Potential: The Power of Internal Influencers

Did you know that key influencers within organizations can boost company performance by up to 25%? These are the go-to people for the “meeting after the meeting,” and leveraging their potential can transform your business. In this episode of 'Bring Out the Talent,' we speak with Jason Anthoine, who brings 35 years of experience working with top executives to inspire and engage employees. Growing up in a blue-collar household, Jason developed a unique approach to making work, and the people who do it, truly matter.

Join us as Jason shares his insights on identifying and working with internal influencers to transform company culture, boost morale, and drive organizational goals. Don’t miss this opportunity to learn how to unlock hidden potential within your workforce.

Transcript

Jocelyn Allen:
I know our audience is probably sick of us talking about our dance moves because it's like how much more exciting could our dance moves get on this show? Good, but not very complicated song, but they really are very different every single time. We've had a lot of fun. Yes, the guests bring something to the table. We have accessories today that we are using. It really just, it gets us going for the show. It's our process, right? It's our process, getting jazzed up. And I mean, it's a great tune, so it comes naturally.

Maria Melfa:
Exactly.

Jocelyn Allen:
I think one day we should have an open Zoom meeting and we can invite people to do some dance moves with us and we can have a contest. I actually love that idea. Imagine if we like set a date and we're like, listen, Bring Out the Talent listeners. The time has come. You got moves. We want to see them. Exactly. And we'll give away some gift cards. Okay. We're doing it. Jason, you heard this first. Bring out all the talent. Bring out all your talents. I like that. Okay, well, Jocelyn, did you know that employees who are recognized as key influencers within their organization can increase company's performance by up to 25%? Did you know that?

Maria Melfa:
I didn't know that, but that is a large percentage and I can see how that would affect an organization.

Jocelyn Allen:
Yes. So these are the people everyone turns to for the meeting after the meeting. We know that. Sometimes I could see after we have meetings, you see people talking to each other and saying, what did Maria say? I had no idea. She was very confusing. What was that meeting about? And it's obviously a very important thing. So in this episode of Bring Out the Talent, we welcome Jason Anthon. That's right. I said it right, right?

Jason Anthon:
You got it closer than most everybody else ever has. So thank you very much for whatever practice you did before this.

Jocelyn Allen:
Antoine, I said it right? Antoine, okay, good. Okay, great. And we don't even have to delete that part. So with 35 years of experience working alongside CEOs, CHROs, and COOs, Jason has dedicated his career to helping leaders better inform, involve and inspire their employees...

Jocelyn Allen:
...His unique approach is rooted in his own background. Growing up in a blue collar household in Fort Valley, Georgia, Jason was deeply influenced by his parents. His father was an assembly line foreman and his mother, a bank secretary. These early experiences shaped his mission to make work and the people who do it truly matter.

Today, Jason will share his invaluable insights on identifying and working with your company's untapped internal influencers—the ones that everybody turns to for help and advice. He'll discuss how these influencers can transform your company culture, boost morale, and drive your organization's goals and initiatives. Welcome,

Jason Anthon:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so glad that I was able to get a chance to dance this afternoon. That doesn't happen.

Jocelyn Allen:
Well, we're glad to see your dance moves and welcome.

Jason Anthon:
Yeah, yeah. Glad to be here.

Jocelyn Allen:
Thank you. Jason, your story is inspiring on a lot of levels because this—the story of the background and your passion, why you kind of led yourself in this direction and then created the business that you have, unlocking potential and this idea of internal influencers. The word influencer is huge, right? It is a very hot word in our culture right now for many reasons. We think about it from a social media perspective.

But at the end of the day, what you've deduced is that these are go-to people who you rely on for the real goods and information. And I love the idea of instilling that power and confidence in those people to drive other people to do the same thing. So I'm just—I'm very inspired by this message that you're sending. And it is—it’s great to have an episode on it. So I'd love to start with a little bit more about the tail end of that intro there, like the story about your parents and what inspired you to create this idea of inspiring your employees through the power of that influence?

Jason Anthon:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, like most people, when you're growing up, your parents are working and they come home and they talk about what happened at work. I think a lot of kids are like, oh, how boring. I don't want to hear anything about this. But for some reason, it was always interesting to me...

Jason Anthon (continued):
...My dad was working down at—it’s a school bus factory. So if you grew up riding on a Blue Bird school bus, he was making those things. So he had a different kind of point of view because he was working on the assembly line at a school bus factory versus my mom, who was working at a bank as a secretary, which I guess was back when you could say secretary. I think executive assistant is probably a little more popular now, but same thing.

It was just great when they would come home and I could hear stories that they were telling about what was great and what was not great and what was working and what wasn't working and why those things might be. And all that stuff just kind of embedded itself in me. And when I went to school at University of Georgia—

Jocelyn Allen:
We won't comment.

Jason Anthon:
We won’t talk about that, Ms. Wolverine. Did you see the look he gave you? I love that. That’s right. Always intimidating. Bulldogs are always intimidating. So when I got my first job right out of college, it was doing employee newsletter for a bank. I also had to do media relations and press releases, but I really loved the employee newsletter side of things.

And so that started this 35-year career journey where I've spent my entire time helping companies inform and involve and inspire their employees. Of course, I've had responsibilities as CCO a couple of times for external comms and different things like that, but my true passion is internal comms and culture and employee experience, because all those things really matter.

I mean, think about it. How many hours do we all spend each day, each week, month, year, year after year at work? It’s way more time than we’re spending anywhere else, so it ought to be for everybody’s good—the company and the employees, plus the customers. So I just—it's almost like I fell backwards into it and I'm glad I did. And I haven't tried to climb out of that pool in over 35 years.

Maria Melfa:
Yeah.

Jocelyn Allen:
How would you describe an internal influencer? So I know it's probably different than those social media influencers. And what makes them different from the usual formal leader that we see in companies?

Jason Anthon:
Well, you're exactly right...

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Jason Anthon (continued):
...because when you hear the word influencer, you immediately think X or Facebook or other sort of external social media platforms. And all those types of influencers are certainly important for a lot of reasons, especially for companies who use them to help drive their brand awareness. But when we are talking about influencers, we mean the ones on the inside of the organization.

And like you said in the intro, these are the ones that everybody goes to for the meeting after the meeting. And what makes them different from normal leaders and managers and others is that typically they are not leaders and managers. They can be, but not always—and certainly not usually. And they usually don't have a title that you would think would be like a leader or a manager title, but they know a lot. They understand a lot. They watch and listen probably a little more than most other folks do.

I don’t have any research to back this up, but it feels like they're more like empathetic sort of introverts almost, where they are absorbing things before they form opinions. And I think that makes them not just the influencers that they are, but it makes people even more comfortable talking with them and approaching them because they do approach their work in that manner.

And it makes it easier to form relationships with them, knowing that this person is just doing this because it's the best thing for them and for people they're influencing and the company itself. They're not trying to be promotional or extroverted or anything like that. They just hear and listen to things differently and turn that into something good.

Jocelyn Allen:
Do you think it's just high emotional intelligence or are there other qualities?

Jason Anthon:
That's a good question. Well, that certainly is a great component, and I’m glad you mentioned that because they typically tend to be people who are a little more curious, who are a little more introspective about things. And so those folks tend to be on that scale that you just described, because they naturally want to know more, understand more.

And over time, they've gotten really good at being able to translate those things so that other people can understand them in the same way...

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Jason Anthon (continued):
...And a lot of times that's not the case. We've all been in town halls and organizations where leaders are talking about this, that, and the other thing. And sometimes it's just like Chinese math because it's so complicated. They have a way of being able to translate those things into things that people actually understand and appreciate. And so it probably does put them on that scale, Maria.

Jocelyn Allen:
A little sidebar question too, because I'm absolutely thinking of the types of people that I see every day. I'm like, yeah, you are the internal influencer. And I see all of the traits that you're mentioning too, like the awareness and the active listening and the empathy.

Are those people—let me think of the way I want to ask this question. I guess in your experience overall, should those people be put in leadership positions based on that? Or should we focus on this influencer idea as their role? Do you know what I'm asking?

Jason Anthon:
No, no, you did. That's a great way to put it. And I think the reality is that some leaders are influencers, and some influencers are leaders, but the best way to think about them is that's two different things from an employee's perspective.

So I might have a leader that I work with and for that I really enjoy, and it's a great relationship. But I also have somebody else that I go to who is my influencer. That is no reflection on my relationship with my leader. It's almost like employees see them as two different people that they can go to that have similar skills, but not the same.

So you can be an outstanding leader and not necessarily be listed as an influencer. And we see that all the time when we're working with our clients. “Oh my gosh, so-and-so that leads the West region is not even on this list of people.” They’re a leader. How can that be true? It is true because employees see the need and the qualities of a leader a little bit differently, and there is room for both of them.

Jocelyn Allen:
Thank you for that, because I think it's hard to answer that question concretely. But yeah, it's kind of like what you said—there's room for both, which means there's room for overlap as well...

Jocelyn Allen (continued):
So what are these traits exactly, other than what you mentioned? Because I know Maria had asked the question about emotional intelligence, and you had mentioned some of the things that you've experienced—that there's a level of empathy there that you see across the board and curiosity. What other key traits or behaviors do you see make somebody identifiable as the internal influencer, and how are they standing out from the crowd?

Jason Anthon:
Yeah, they tend to be, like we said, really curious, somewhat introspective. They are keeping a pulse on the organization, but usually like one or two levels down because they're not trying to be obvious about it. And some of them, nobody sets out and says, “I'm going to be an influencer at this organization.” They just are who they are.

And so sometimes those traits, like we just mentioned, are apparent. Sometimes they become things that they acquire over time. It could be a short amount of time, it could be a long amount of time, but eventually they become the type of person who tends to be a little bit more calm, a little bit more measured, and takes some time to form opinions around whatever it is that's going on in the organization.

So that when people come and ask them things, they've thought about it rather than sort of quick reactions that you may see from other personalities. And I think the other thing that makes them not only influencers but effective is that they do a really good job at what I call the little “c” communication.

So Big “C” Communications is stuff that comes from headquarters and the communications team. But little “c” is all the other communications that happen in an organization. And they are really good at little “c” communications, which to me is helping to translate all the big “C” stuff into real human words that people at different levels of the organization can understand and appreciate. And that's a unique skill, but they all seem to have that in common.

By the way, all this internal influencer work—my partner on this is a firm in Copenhagen called Innovisor. They pioneered this work and have all kinds of stats and data on what we’re discussing...

Jason Anthon (continued):
...We’ve been really strong partners over the last couple of years. And it’s just been amazing to see some of the work they’ve done in Europe, particularly, and how that translates into U.S. culture and corporate America. There are vast differences between those two regions, but it’s an incredible concept that I don’t know that anybody’s really thought about or spent a whole lot of time on—certainly not how to identify them and what to do once you do. But they’ve really pioneered that. And so it’s fantastic to work with them because they know about a thousand times more than I do about it.

Maria Melfa:
That’s interesting. I know Bruce Tulgan, who we've had here as a guest a few times, he has written a book on this topic, which has been a good book.

Jocelyn Allen:
Yeah, it is a good book and lots of really valuable insights from the leadership perspective of it too. It's something that's right there in front of us, I think. And it takes somebody to target it and understand what it can do to make business changes and growth.

And you talked about this company—say it again?

Jason Anthon:
Innovisor.

Maria Melfa:
Innovisor. Yeah. I didn't want to say it wrong. Please forgive me. So this company, Innovisor, what do they say about identifying these influencers? Do they have a secret sauce recipe on their page? How do we point these people out? And what are the signs or strategies around it?

Jason Anthon:
Yeah, that’s a great question because you would think if they’re influential, everybody would know who they are. But most people don’t. And the interesting thing is that usually it’s a certain level of leadership and above—or maybe HR as a whole—that doesn’t know that.

But what's interesting is that all the other employees in the organization know who the internal influencers are because they’re already going to them. So the best way to understand who these internal influencers are is to ask your employees: Who do you go to for the meeting after the meeting? Who helps you really understand some of these complicated or challenging things?

And they’ll just tell you.

Jason Anthon (continued):
And now you've got a list of the people that employees themselves have identified as being influencers inside the organization. There are a lot of different things you can do with that knowledge—including nothing, which is also a very good thing to do. And we can talk about that a little bit later.

But those tend to be how to spot them. Sometimes it's obvious. Usually it's not. But the people who know who they are are the people who are going to them every single day. So let’s ask everybody—who do they go to?

Jocelyn Allen:
I know we talked about the meeting after the meeting. Do you think that that happens, though, because the leader was not clear in communication? And I’m sure that— I guess I'm going to answer my own question—I'm sure perhaps. But there's also a different component of this. What else?

Jason Anthon:
Yeah, you're exactly right. I think sometimes it's because they're not clear. Personally, I don't think it's because they're intentionally not clear. I don’t think they think that way. I think they think they’re being clear, but they live in a different world than maybe some of the other employees do.

And so what’s clear to somebody might not be clear to someone else. So sometimes I think it’s because they’re not clear. Sometimes it’s because they’re crystal clear. And in either case, humans being humans, I think employees want to know more.

Like when you say, “We need to increase market share in this region,” okay, I understand that. I even understand what I might need to do to make that happen. But why?

And just doing corporate communications and executive communications for 35 years now—in a typical town hall, right at the very end, you may have three to five minutes for, “All right, does anybody have any questions?” And your fingers are crossed that nobody will have any questions because you're right at the end.

But that's where all the why comes out.

Jason Anthon (continued):
That’s where all the why comes out. And so when people say, “Oh, that was a great town hall, but I really would like to know more about this,” it’s because not enough time was spent on the why.

And I think when people go to these influencers for this sort of meeting after the meeting or any other type of clarification, it is mostly to discuss the why. Most organizations do a pretty good job of the what and the when and the how and the who and where—but not the why.

And it feels like these influencers are really good at helping people to understand the why.

Maria Melfa:
So I’m curious, Jason, can this ever work against you if you have a toxic culture or you have toxic employees that could be a negative influencer? So you have the cheerleader—thank God we don’t have that at TTA—we have experienced that over the 30 years, though. You have this group and after a meeting they like to get together and complain about things.

And I know a lot of it is human nature, people do like to talk, but the problem is they could be talking about, “Can you believe what she or he just said to me?” And then that keeps it within that group versus the person then going back to the leader and discussing their concerns about that. Because I believe most often it’s just a case of misunderstanding and miscommunication when you really get down to it.

Jason Anthon:
You are 100% right. If you think about internal influencers kind of like a superhero—I mean, superheroes can use their powers for good and for not so good.

And the same is true with influencers. We’ve all run into folks like that who were both doing the good stuff and the not-so-good stuff throughout our careers. And so they can have just as much impact in the wrong direction as they can in the right direction.

I don’t have data to back this up, but my gut says, based on just observing employee behavior, usually over time it just gets so tedious talking negatively and listening to negative things all the time to the point where you’re like, “All right, we’ve just been talking about this forever. What are we actually going to do about it?”

Jason Anthon (continued):
And as soon as it gets moved into, “All right, what is the action that we can take to recommend how to fix this thing?” that’s usually when the negative folks—who are the influencers—lose interest. Because their main interest is just dusting up negative stuff all the time.

So once you come up with a solution for how to solve those things, now they can’t sit around and do all the negative stuff. So—but you're right. I mean, it can go both ways.

And sometimes that’s good. You want somebody to constantly be questioning, “All right, you said this, but why? I don't understand what’s going on.” Like, poke holes in it. We need people who are going to do that if we're going to get true understanding across the organization. So we want some people to be doing that all the time, whether they're influencers or not.

Maria Melfa:
Yeah.

Jason Anthon:
But there is a time when that becomes a little bit too much and it doesn't help the organization or the people in it.

Jocelyn Allen:
I agree. It’s like, “Don’t come to me with problems, come to me with solutions,” or, “Let’s talk it out if you’re not sure.”

Jason Anthon:
Yeah, exactly. And there’s no way to avoid that. We’re all working with humans—until the robots take over. And even then, somebody's got to boss around the robot. So I don’t know that any of that's ever going away. So let's just accept that that’s what it’s like to be a human and figure out ways to take advantage of those things.

Jocelyn Allen:
Exactly. I think when we're all working on the same goals and have the same mission, then it becomes clear that we all just want to talk through these misunderstandings and that we don't have to worry about this influencer working against the mission.

Jason Anthon:
Right. And you bring up a really good point...

Jason Anthon (continued):
If we’re all working toward the same goals and mission and KPIs—or however it is we’re measuring our success—the best way for people to truly understand those things and then know what to do about it is to spend a lot more time on the why.

A lot more time on the why. We spend a ton of time on the other things, of course, but for people to really understand and then make decisions and change what they think, feel, say, and do as a result—it takes the why.

I mean, think about your own personal life. “Oh, you need to put your seatbelt on.” Well, I’m just going to do it because somebody told me? Or—why? Why would that even matter if I put my seatbelt on? Well, here’s why. Oh—well yeah, you’re right. I will make this decision to do this. It’s the why that triggers that change in what they think, feel, say, and do—usually.

Jocelyn Allen:
That’s great insight. And I think what makes us so passionate about this is that—we work very closely here at TTA—we work with a lot of customers helping them find solutions for these types of issues. And a lot of times what you see are the problems first, right, before you start to find the solutions.

So I can appreciate that. Like, there’s always a yin to every yang and vice versa. So how do we tip the scales a little bit in the other direction though? So we’ve talked about the potential risks, right, where there could be the exact opposite of that positive influencer and therefore a negative influencer. So how do we engage the positive influencers? How do we get them to drive goals and initiatives and get the group of people around them that need to have that person in order to drive their own change?

Jason Anthon:
Sure, yeah, that’s a great question.

The beautiful thing is that that is already happening. So all the organizations are like, “We need to know the list, and then we need to know what to do with these people.” Usually the best thing to do is nothing. We know who they are. We can include them in things that we’re already doing to make sure that they can keep doing what they’re doing.

Jason Anthon (continued):
And that usually depends on your culture. So if you're in the type of work culture where knowing who influencers are and leaders being okay that it might not be them, then great. It’s perfectly fine to talk openly about that and use them in different ways and make sure that they're included.

In other cultures, that's not necessarily true. It doesn’t mean one’s better or one’s worse. It just means they’re different. So you may work in a culture where leaders would get nervous if their names aren't on the list, or there might be other reasons like, “Gosh, we know who these people are, but we don’t really know what to do with them. And we're not sure if some of them are all positive all the time.” It just creates a whole other list of things people want to find out.

But usually—they're already influencers. They’re already influencing. Now you just know it. And it’s sort of like Fight Club: the first rule of Fight Club is not to talk about Fight Club. Same thing here. First rule of knowing your influencers is: don’t overuse your influencers.

Because as soon as you do, they lose their influence. Once the people that they are influencing perceive that, “Well, I thought this person was somebody I could trust and go to. But now, because corporate is involving them in everything, it feels like they're no longer on my side. They’re on their side.” Now they might be a spy. Or, “I can’t trust them.”

As soon as you start overtly doing things, they begin to lose their influence. So the best way for them to continue being influential is to let them continue being influential. They already are. Just make sure you're including them whenever you're already doing other things—focus groups, surveys, the senior leaders come into town and you want to know who needs to be in the audience—things like that. Just make sure they’re being included in what you’re already doing.

Jocelyn Allen:
Okay, so it’s like invite them to the table all the time instead of making them in charge of some sort of employee resource group, right? Because I was thinking about that—I was like, oh, do you give them ownership of an ERG? And be like, here’s a little place where you guys can all get together and do what we know you’re doing anyway—the meeting after the meeting—but now we’re giving it a title. And everybody’s like, “Oh crap, I don’t want that.”

Jason Anthon:
Yeah. Then it loses its power.

Jocelyn Allen:
All the value that the employees are seeing it for. It's like—even though it’s unfortunate, because I think there are a ton of leaders who would see it positively and be like, “I want you to keep doing this, so I want to give you all the resources you can.” But you’re saying to basically do that quietly instead. Don’t give it an official title. Just give it its recognition and give them a seat at the table.

Jason Anthon:
That’s right. And once you identify these folks and you have a list, you’re going to have to put it in a vault and forget the combination. Because everybody’s going to want to get their hands on that thing. And who wouldn’t?

Of course we want to do everything we can for things to be as successful as they can be. And if this will help—good, let’s try this. It’s already helping. They’re already doing what they need to do. Now we’re aware of that. Let’s just make sure they keep doing it. That’s usually good enough.

Jocelyn Allen:
Can you share any example that you have?

Jason Anthon:
Oh, absolutely. Innovisor and I are working right now with a client in the telecom space where we are identifying their internal influencers. We’ve gotten through that point of this initiative with this client.

Now, here’s the interesting thing. If you think about most organizations of any size, the leaders—quote “leaders”—make up about 12% of the employee population, and they can directly influence only about 50% of the rest of the organization. Twelve percent can directly influence fifty percent.

As opposed to internal influencers, which in any size organization are typically about 3% of the employee population—but they can directly influence 90% of the rest of the organization.

So when we talked earlier about “they can use their powers for good, they can use their powers for not good”—that’s how it shows up. Everybody’s like, “Oh, we’ve got to get the leaders out there and get them communicating.” Yes, you should. But just know, you’re only going to directly influence about 50% of the organization.

Jason Anthon (continued):
If we make sure that influencers are included in the same types of things that leaders would know or be part of, then we can reach 90%. So there's the additional 40% on top of what the leaders can reach. That just makes everything more effective.

So we're at that phase right now with that client, where we've identified them. And now we’re going one step further—taking a representative sample of these folks, without necessarily telling them they're influencers, and asking them about communications. Where do they get their information? So if they're influential, how are they getting that information so they can be influential?

From a comms perspective, we want to know: Where are they getting it from? What works? What doesn’t? And then once they get it, what do they do with it? How do they share it?

So we’re in that phase right now with that particular client. But those numbers—3% and 90%, and 12% and 50%—those are exactly in line with what the averages have been with Innovisor over the last five to ten years.

Jocelyn Allen:
Absolutely fascinating. Some incredible stats.

Jason Anthon:
Yeah, it really is.

Jocelyn Allen:
So what do you think—the change in working in a virtual environment—does that make it harder? Because I know you don't have the cooler talk or walking outside the meeting together. Yeah. So how do you see the difference on that?

Jason Anthon:
That’s a great question. And it’s impacted so much of everything, just this whole shift from work-from-home, or from the office, or hybrid. And then there’s a whole group of employees who would never have the opportunity to work from home. You can’t build a school bus from your den. That’s just how it is.

And so for them, it’s business as usual as far as where they get their work done. But I think when people want information and need to understand things, they're going to reach out to the people who influence them, no matter where they are...

Jason Anthon (continued):
...which, before the pandemic, was email—maybe walk down the hall, or “Let’s grab lunch,” or whatever. Now, if we’re not necessarily physically together, there’s Teams, there’s texting, there’s all kinds of other digital ways that people are still doing that.

So I think the lesson there is—it’s sort of like water flowing downhill. It’s going to go. Nothing’s going to stop it. Nothing can get in its way.

Same thing here. If people have a relationship with someone that’s important to them—certainly like these influencer relationships are—they’re going to seek them out, no matter where they are or what method they have to use to do it.

Jocelyn Allen:
So, to kind of wrap up here, I want to talk about an interesting stat that we saw that relates to this and our ever-evolving love for McKinsey Reports. So the stat that they put out—it was based on employee engagement. So I’m wondering how it relates to these influencers and their impact on it. But it says that when companies have a certain amount of engaged employees, those companies outperform those without engaged employees by… 202 percent. That is insane.

That is insane. You take the number that you have, you multiply—you add it to itself, and then you add it to itself again—plus two percent. That’s what we’re talking about, people. That’s insane.

So how much of an impact or a contribution do you believe internal influencers have on this number, regardless of recognition?

Jason Anthon:
Yeah. I think it’s hard to measure, because it’s hard to measure engagement anyway. People say, “Alright, we’re going to do an engagement survey.” People will tell you they’re engaged—not because they care about working there—but because, “I’ve got three kids in college and I can’t lose this job.”

So it’s hard to measure true engagement, particularly when there’s not a real common industry definition for what it even is.

Jason Anthon (continued):
Regardless, it’s an important number and everybody’s doing it—and they’re all doing it in their own way, which is important and they should be doing that. But I think a lot of what those influencers are doing is basically putting a turbo on whatever the company is already doing to help drive engagement.

So if, as a company, our bias is toward communicating more and more often, then you’re going to drive some engagement there. You’re going to drive a little bit more engagement by having that in place—and the influencers doing some things themselves on the side—where it just feels like a little turbo on top of the engine that you’ve already got running to help drive better engagement.

That is incredibly important, because the other thing about influencers is that if they leave an organization for whatever reason—they’re not interested, or voluntary/involuntary turnover, whatever it might be—the people that they influence are 90% more likely to leave that organization, and fairly immediately.

Because, Maria, if you’re going to Jocelyn and say, “Oh, Jocelyn’s my person, and she ain't here anymore,” and if Jocelyn doesn’t think she needs to be here anymore… “I don’t know why I should be.”

When we do this influencer stuff, we end up with a scattershot map, and then we can look in certain situations where some of those influencers have left the organization—for whatever reason—and then you look at the scattershot… there’s just now big holes where that influencer used to be, and where their influencer network also used to be—because now those people are also gone.

Jocelyn Allen:
What I appreciate the most about that, Jason, is that you have nailed Maria on the nose. As the President and CEO of TTA—if I were to leave, she’d be done.

Jason Anthon:
Anybody who’s in charge absolutely knows that. The only reason I’m able to be in charge is that somebody’s in charge of me. And I would be very, very upset.

Maria Melfa:
I wouldn’t be done. And I know you’re joking, but I would be extremely—

David (Producer):
—upset.

Jocelyn Allen:
Sad.

Jocelyn Allen (continued):
Nobody wants to dance alone. Nobody wants to dance alone. Okay? I mean, you have barely scratched the surface. And I’m not saying because you haven’t done a lot—I’m just saying because we have a lot to go. The sky is the limit, baby.

Maria Melfa:
Beyond. Beyond.

Jocelyn Allen:
Yes, absolutely. That’s the way it should be. That’s the way it should be.

Maria Melfa:
Exactly.

Jocelyn Allen:
She’s like, “Well, I mean, I’d be sad. I’d buy an extra box of tissues, maybe.”

Maria Melfa:
No—I would be very sad. Of course. Of course.

Jason Anthon:
You are an influencer. Think about how that would impact engagement across the organization—whether Jocelyn was influencing anybody else or not. So they would be like, “Oh gosh…” Now they’re questioning things. And so you’re going to naturally see a dip in engagement that you hope is a very short “v”—a lowercase v. Most times it’s a very elongated “u.” And when you’re down in that trough, man, you’ve got to do everything you can to get out of there as fast as possible.

Maria Melfa:
Yeah.

Jason Anthon:
Yeah.

Jocelyn Allen:
No, I love this conversation because I think it is a really important subject. This is untapped resources, essentially. This is happening everywhere. Because like—it’s not just professional.

If you think—because we talked about it—there’s a social media influencer, there’s always that one person in the group of friends that it’s like, when they don’t show up, you’re like, “Well, what do we do?”

Right? It’s everywhere. So it’s kind of taking those things that you know about the personal version of influencers—understanding who would I call, who could I see doing a makeup tutorial on YouTube and killing it? That’s your personality in your workforce that can be said influencer.

And I think this is a very cool topic for people to give confidence and power to their people. And it accelerates the growth of the organization.

Jason Anthon:
Yeah.

Jason Anthon (continued):
And I love that you keep bringing up the external examples, because—I mean, think about all those social media channels and platforms. They all exist for influencers and people who want to be influenced.

So, for example, you’re not sure where to go eat. You’re going to go on Yelp and you’re going to say, “Oh, this Chinese place has a really good rating,” or it doesn’t. So I’m going to make a decision about whether I’m going to go to this place or not—because a total stranger got wonton soup and they didn’t like it. So I’m willing to be influenced by somebody—or even something—that I don’t know anything about. And they might not know anything about.

But I’m still going to let that influence me.

Imagine how powerful that is when you do know the person—and they do know what they’re talking about—and you’re both together in the same environment. That’s ten times more powerful than what’s going on on the external side, to me.

Jocelyn Allen:
I agree. Well, this has been super informative—a really fun topic. And I think the only way to go to the next level is to do something else that’s really fun. And that’s the TTA 10.

David (Producer):
It’s the TTA 10! Ten final questions for our guest.

Jocelyn Allen:
Another set of awesome tunes. So, Jason—we went over this before the episode. You know what this is all about. So I’ve got ten questions I’m going to ask you. You answer them instinctively, and then we’ll see the outcome—whether or not 90 seconds of completion has been achieved.

Okay? Or less, as they say. So—are you ready?

Jason Anthon:
Yes, I’m ready. I’m ready.

Jocelyn Allen:
So is David—because he already started the clock. David, can you confirm that 90 seconds are ready, please?

David (Producer):
I’m just getting the clock warmed up, Jocelyn. And the TTA 10 begins now.

(continued in final message – full TTA 10 lightning round)

Jocelyn Allen:
Alright—if you could have dinner with any fictional character, who would it be?

Jason Anthon:
Superman.

Jocelyn Allen:
Okay. Tell me about a hobby of yours that people might be surprised to know about.

Jason Anthon:
Yard work with a push mower.

Jocelyn Allen:
Okay—if you could instantly become an expert in any skill, what would it be?

Jason Anthon:
Harmonica.

Jocelyn Allen:
What would you say is the funniest thing that happened to you recently?

Jason Anthon:
I don’t know how recent it’s been, but I went to an arts and crafts fair and I bought a raffle ticket. I didn’t know it—I thought I was just making a donation—and I ended up winning a horse. Got back from the arts and crafts place, the guy called me up—“Hey, you won. When should we bring you your horse?”

Jocelyn Allen:
Nobody’s going to beat that one. You can’t use that question again. What horse?

Jason Anthon:
“What do you mean what horse?” “Yeah, you won the horse. When are we going to bring it to you?” I was like, “Oh—I don’t know, I’ve got to do some planning. I’ll call you back.”

Jocelyn Allen:
Oh my God, that’s hilarious.

If you could visit any place in the world, where would you go?

Jason Anthon:
Scotland.

Jocelyn Allen:
Oh yes—my favorite. If you could learn any language overnight, what would you choose?

Jason Anthon:
Japanese.

Jocelyn Allen:
If you could swap lives with anybody—alive or dead—who would it be?

Jason Anthon:
President Theodore Roosevelt.

Jocelyn Allen:
What’s the weirdest food you’ve ever tried that you surprisingly loved?

Jason Anthon:
Liver. My whole life, I was like, “I’m not ever eating liver.” And then I had to go on a work trip and—like—I got shamed into eating liver. So I had the liver. It was actually better than I thought. I’m not going to have it again.

Jocelyn Allen:
If you were to create a title for a movie about your life, what would it be?

Jason Anthon:
“Who the hell does this guy think he is?”

Jocelyn Allen:
Last question: What’s six plus two?

Jason Anthon:
Eight.

Jocelyn Allen:
Alright, Jason, that gets us through the 10. David—can you give us the results, please?

David (Producer):
I mean, giving him a little bit of time for that hilarious story—it was a horse story. We have to do a conversion for the horse. We have the horse conversion measure.

Jocelyn Allen:
I didn’t even explain—when the word “horse” came out of your mouth, I still wasn’t ready for it. Do you actually have the horse now?

Jason Anthon:
No. That was when we lived down in middle Georgia. And when we moved, I gifted it to somebody on my team.

Maria Melfa:
Okay, but you ended up taking it. Now you get Clyde.

David (Producer):
He gave it to his internal influencer. He’s like, “Here.”

David (Producer):
Adjusting for the horse—Jason comes in at 1 minute and 18 seconds. He is a TTA 10 champion.

Jocelyn Allen:
Yes! Those were some deep, provoking thoughts. They really were. Those were hard crosses.

Maria Melfa:
Jocelyn, you didn’t give him easy ones.

Jocelyn Allen:
Those were all open-ended—more. But did you see the stories I got out of it?

David (Producer):
Very good. Was second prize in the raffle two horses?

Jason Anthon:
It might have been some pigs—which might have been better for some reason, I don’t know. But anyway, it was lovely to own a horse for a while.

David (Producer):
Of course. So since you’re a winner, Jason, we have hopefully a fitting tribute to you and your heritage, where you came from and where you are now. Let’s take a listen.

🎵 [Theme Song by David / SPEAKER_01] 🎵
(Lyrics omitted for brevity, but were included in the original text.)

Jason Anthon:
Oh man. Unbelievable. Wow. Wow. I love it. That is great.

Jocelyn Allen:
So now you can be a social media influencer too—because you’ve got your own video to put on your Facebook.

Jason Anthon:
That’s fantastic. I can’t wait to record that onto—like—a cassette, so I can play it in my old car as I drive down the road. People will be like, “What is that crazy guy up to now?” I’m like, “Hey, I’ve got a theme song. I told you I was somebody. I’ve got my own theme song now.”

Jocelyn Allen:
Do you have a cassette player on your horse?

Jason Anthon:
Not on the horse. It’s just 8-track. It’s not cassette. He has a Sony Walkman.

Jocelyn Allen:
Jason, I’m just saying—if after this episode, you don’t get that horse back, everybody’s going to expect you to have a horse now.

That was… so thank you, because the episode was awesome. The TTA 10 was great. You were so authentic and genuine. I loved everything about it. And that horse story—I can’t wait to tell everybody about it. That was so good. It really was.

Maria Melfa:
It was probably one of the best answers we’ve had. And it was a wonderful episode. Great information.

Jason Anthon:
Thank you so much.

Jocelyn Allen:
Absolutely. Thank you.

Jason Anthon:
It’s been such a pleasure. I appreciate you letting me come on here and act a fool. It’s been really fun.

Maria Melfa:
We appreciate you letting us do the same.

Jocelyn Allen (closing):
To unlock your team’s hidden potential and recognize the power of your internal influencers, visit us at thetrainingassociates.com. We’ll see you later.