Navigating Change Management

In an era where change is constant, mastering change management is crucial for organizational success. In fact, a McKinsey report found that 73% of organizations fail to achieve substantial returns on their change management investments, highlighting the need for effective leadership during transitions. In this episode of 'Bring Out the Talent,' we welcome longtime TTA partner Joe Jordan. As a speaker, corporate trainer, author, and business advisor, Joe has spent over 30 years helping companies worldwide accelerate business transformation and enhance performance. 

In this conversation, Joe will share his insights on change management and communication, equipping you with the knowledge to guide your organization through change. If you're looking to steer your company toward sustained growth and success amidst the uncertainty of change, you won't want to miss this episode.

Chapters

• 0:00 TTAJoeJordan
• 41:35 Marker

Transcript

Maria Melfa:

 Well, our dance moves have certainly gotten better since this morning.

Jocelyn Allen:

 This morning? I don’t even think we danced! We just did a light bop—it was a little weird.

Maria Melfa:

 Are you sure? Because judging by David’s reaction, I feel like he wasn’t impressed.

David (Producer):

 As long as you’re expressing yourself—whatever that was—I celebrate it.

Jocelyn Allen:

 Yeah, that’s what I thought. Thank you very much.

Maria Melfa:

And let’s not forget, David’s the one who picked our intro music. Regret it every day, don’t you?

David (Producer):

 I have footage of your dancing and I will use it if I need to.

Maria Melfa:

 Oh boy. The blooper reel continues.

Jocelyn Allen:

 And we’re just giving him more material!

Maria Melfa:

 Exactly. Anyway—we are very excited for today’s topic and even more excited for our guest, a long-time TTA partner we’ll introduce in a moment.

In today’s world, where constant change is the only constant, mastering change management is essential for organizational success. According to McKinsey, 73% of organizations fail to achieve substantial returns on their change management investments. This highlights just how complex—and critical—it is to lead effectively through transitions.

We are thrilled to welcome back our long-time TTA partner, Joe Jordan.

Joe is an accomplished speaker, trainer, author, business advisor, and—just kidding—a master Tupperware distributor. (That last one was false.)

 If this were the TTA 10, I’d already be failing.

Joe has spent over 30 years helping companies accelerate business transformation and enhance performance. He’s worked with organizations including AT&T, Dell, IKEA, KPMG, McKinsey, and Microsoft.

Today, Joe will share his expert insights on leadership development, critical thinking, change management, communication—and how to lead through the complex, rewarding process of organizational change.

Welcome, Joe!

Joe Jordan:

 Thank you, Maria, Jocelyn, and David. It’s a privilege to be here. I’ve been looking forward to this for a long time.

Maria Melfa:

 It’s about time you joined us, Joe. You were afraid—but we’re glad to have you.

Joe Jordan:

 I finally got on your dance card. I’m glad for that.

Jocelyn Allen:

 Yes, absolutely. So Joe, with over 30 years of experience helping companies navigate transformation, what would you say are the key components of a successful change management strategy?

Joe Jordan:

 I’ve been lucky to be part of some amazing change management experiences—things I look back on with deep gratitude. And I’ve also seen some that… didn’t quite work.

There are three things that stand out every time:

1. Leadership from the top.

 Not just sort of—truly from the top. Change must be championed by the CEO or the most senior leader. I don’t mean they have to run every meeting, but everyone must know this person cares and is driving the effort.

Just last week, I worked with a large apparel brand. Their brand president introduced our session and—rather than leaving—sat down, took notes, joined the discussion, and engaged the whole time. That’s leadership.

2. Prioritize the energy.

 Harvard published a great piece called Transformations That Work. One point they made: make sure the energy for change doesn’t get diluted.

I once helped a company identify four key priorities in January. Everything looked great. Seven months later, they had 30 projects still running in their PMO. You can’t do 30 things and claim you’re focused on four.

3. Sustain the pressure.

 Leaders must keep pressure and focus on the change until it’s fully internalized. That doesn’t mean harshness—it means consistency. Otherwise, people revert to what feels stable.

Too many initiatives lose steam. People assume the change is “set” once it’s announced—but that’s when the real work begins.

Maria Melfa:

 Those are excellent points. How many change initiatives do you think fail because organizations don’t sustain the energy or apply that continued pressure?

They do a great job in the beginning—explaining the “why,” involving everyone—but once it’s moving, they think, “Okay, we’ve got this,” and then shift to something new.

Joe Jordan:

 From my experience, Maria—every single time it didn’t work, that was a factor.

At some level, the failure came from a drop in energy or pressure. I remember a situation where the executive who needed to maintain momentum didn’t. And the change unraveled. Everything reverted.

Maria Melfa:

 Yes, I can see that. I’ve been guilty of that myself. You assume that, because there’s been so much communication and visibility, the change is in motion.

But then you look back and realize: full adoption never happened.

Joe Jordan:

 Exactly. And that’s why prioritizing energy is so important. You can’t keep everything going at once. Something has to give.

Even at senior levels, I’ve seen leaders say, “Yes, we’re changing,” but they themselves don’t follow through. It often takes the CEO or COO stepping in and saying, “If I can prioritize this, so can you.”

I once had a senior executive come speak in a workshop. The first time, he completely missed the mark—nothing he said aligned with the direction of the change.

The next time he came back? Totally different. Clearly, someone had spoken to him. He’d been reined in by the CEO. And that’s what it takes—clear, consistent leadership.

Maria Melfa:

Just in the last few minutes, I’ve thought of several change efforts that didn’t fully succeed—because we didn’t follow them through to the end or keep the energy level where it needed to be.

One thing I find fascinating is how even small decisions can feel like major change to others. Like hiring a new employee—to me, it might not feel like a big change. But to the team? It’s a major adjustment.

Joe Jordan:

 Absolutely. That’s a perfect example. I often say: Mergers and acquisitions are like mom and dad deciding to get married. It’s exciting for them—but now the kids have to figure it out.

Every new hire is like adopting a child into an established family system. You can’t just say, “Okay, everyone, meet Johnny!” and expect it to go smoothly. You need a thoughtful plan for integration.

Jocelyn Allen:

 That’s a great analogy—and very timely. Because so many companies right now are navigating constant transitions.

Between economic shifts, layoffs, backfilling, new leadership—it’s all change. Even a simple promotion creates ripple effects:

• You lose a strong individual contributor
• You replace them with someone new
• Now both roles require support to succeed

It’s not a small thing.

Maria Melfa:

 Right. And if every small thing is a change, do we need formal change management for every single decision? It’s a lot to think about.

Joe Jordan:

 It all comes down to investment—not every change needs a full-scale rollout plan, but every change requires recognition.

Here’s why: our bodies naturally seek homeostasis—physical and emotional equilibrium.

• If it’s hot, we sweat.
• If it’s cold, we shiver.
• Emotionally, when something changes, we look for ways to stabilize.

And the fastest way to feel stable again is to resist the change. It’s unconscious but very real.

I once called someone’s voicemail a year after their company had been acquired. Their message still said the name of the old company.

To me, that was the perfect example of, “Just because everything’s different doesn’t mean anything changed.” They held on to the old identity as a way to feel in control.

Jocelyn Allen:

 It’s amazing how often the small things—a voicemail, a signature, a desk setup—reveal that the change hasn’t really been adopted.

Maria Melfa:

 We’ve done a lot of big change management initiatives around M&As and tech implementations. Those are obvious.

But what we’re discussing now—the smaller, subtle changes—are often the ones that get overlooked, even though they carry huge weight internally.

Joe Jordan:

 Exactly. And overlooking those creates a disconnect. People revert back unless the organization is actively leading them through the process.

Joe Jordan:

 Life is full of competing duties—I was once told “duties never conflict,” but that’s not true.

I’m a husband, father, friend, business owner. My responsibilities collide all the time. And the same is true in organizations. That’s why change must be prioritized and focused. Otherwise, everything collides and nothing gets done.

Jocelyn Allen:

 Right, and once you recognize the need for change, there are layers to making it happen. It’s not just identifying what’s changing—it’s about buy-in, alignment, and clear messaging.

From stakeholders to frontline employees, everyone needs to understand:

• What’s changing?
• Why it matters?
• What it means for them?

How do you approach that?

Joe Jordan:

 There are three principles I always return to:

1. People embrace change when their discomfort with the current situation exceeds their fear of change.

 If the status quo is more uncomfortable than the change, they’ll move.

2. Never underestimate someone’s ability to resist a much-needed change.

 People are pros at avoidance—even when they know better.

3. People don’t stop a behavior until they release their need for that behavior.

 Every behavior serves a purpose. If you want people to change, you need to show them that the old way no longer works.

At the executive level, I frame it around business drivers:

• Cash generation
• Profitability
• Asset utilization
• Growth
• People efficiency

If you can’t tie a change to at least one of those, don’t waste leadership’s time.

At the employee level, it’s more personal:

• How will this change help them grow?
• What’s the benefit to them?

And sometimes, the hard truth is—they might no longer fit the new direction. That’s okay. The most gracious thing you can do is help them transition to something that aligns better with who they are.

I completely understand. We’ve had really good employees we’ve had to part ways with—not because they weren’t talented, but because they didn’t want to adapt. They didn’t want to learn something new. And if we didn’t take action, it would’ve affected morale across the company.

Joe Jordan:

 Exactly. It’s difficult, but necessary.

I think leaders need to be able to answer five questions at any time during a change:

1. Why are we making this change?
2. When it’s complete, what will be different?
3. What opportunity does this create—for the company and the individual?
4. What does it mean for you personally?
5. What happens if we don’t change?

If you can’t answer those, you're not leading change—you’re just announcing it. And people won’t buy in without a compelling story.

Jocelyn Allen:

 Yes! That’s why I didn’t think what you said earlier was too harsh. It’s about the greater good—the team, the company, the mission.

If one person resists, it can hold everyone else back. And sometimes that person is a top performer. But if they refuse to evolve, they become a blocker, not an asset.

Joe Jordan:

 Exactly. I’ve seen high performers—top sellers, even—get transitioned out because they refused to embrace a new culture. And I admired the CEO who made that call.

It showed that performance alone wasn’t enough. Cultural alignment matters.

Jocelyn Allen:

 That’s real leadership. It sends a message that this change is serious—and it sets the tone for everyone else.

Jocelyn Allen:

 Some people might hear this and think, “Okay, in your dream world, maybe!” But the reality is, change is messy—and it's always happening. People don’t realize they’re already in the change by the time they finally start talking about how to manage it.

Maria Melfa:

 Exactly. So Joe, can you give us some practical advice for how leaders can keep communication clear and motivation high throughout the process?

Joe Jordan:

 Absolutely. Here are a few things:

1. You can’t over-communicate during change.
2.  If you don’t tell people what’s happening, they’ll make it up. And once they have a version in their heads, you now have to undo that version before replacing it with the truth. Over-communicate. Consistently and honestly.
3. Transparency matters.
4.  You don’t have to disclose everything, but you must be trustworthy. Especially in a public company, you can’t reveal every detail—but people should always believe you’re telling the truth.
5. Use training as a voice of change.
6.  I’ve seen companies build change messaging into their training courses. One company even embedded it in a four-day executive leadership program funded directly by the CEO.

That funding said: “This matters.” No nickel-and-diming. No questions about whether it's in the budget. And because it came from the top, everyone knew it was a priority.

Jocelyn Allen:

 I love that. Training becomes the vehicle for reinforcing change, not just a tool for skill-building.

Joe Jordan:

 Exactly. Also, don’t wait until the end to show progress. Use internal blogs, newsletters, podcasts—whatever you have—to say, “We’re not there yet, but here’s where we are.”

Progress updates show momentum and build morale. It’s like fitness: I can’t bench 300 yet, but I can do more than I did last week. That’s what people need to see.

Jocelyn Allen:

 Exactly—communicate the small wins. The end goal might shift, but the momentum keeps people going.

Do you think that’s one of the biggest obstacles leaders face—getting too focused on the end result instead of recognizing progress?

Joe Jordan:

 Absolutely. Progress matters. If you don't celebrate progress, people feel like they’re failing—when really, they’re moving forward.

We also need realistic expectations. I’ve been working out most of my life, but I can’t lift what I could in my 20s. Still, I can lift something—and that’s worth recognizing.

So what do leaders need to do?

• Break things into chunks
• Focus on a small number of critical priorities
• Practice planned neglect—consciously deciding what not to do right now

Also—and this is huge—underscore what’s NOT changing.

If you want people to let go of the way they’ve always done things, remind them that:

• The mission is still the mission
• The values are still the values
• The purpose hasn’t changed

If you don’t anchor people to those constants, they’ll cling to process—because that’s the only thing they recognize. Then they resist.

Jocelyn Allen:

 That’s so true. People resist when they feel like everything is changing.

Joe Jordan:

 And here’s another truth: people have a hypocrisy radar, especially younger employees.

If they see leaders not modeling the change, they won’t engage. They’ll say, “Why should I do this when you’re not?”

Leading by example is not optional in change management.

Joe Jordan:

 One more thing I’ve learned—especially from working with people in career transition—is that fear versus trust is everything.

• When people operate from fear, they cling to control, blame others, and mismanage relationships.
• When they operate from trust, they embrace change, take responsibility, and stay connected.

Organizations that build a trust-based culture have a much easier time navigating change.

Yesterday, we had a massive windstorm in Texas. I looked around and noticed something interesting:

• The young trees with no roots were blown over.
• But more surprising—the older, stronger trees were the ones snapped in half.

Why?

 Because they were anchored, but no longer flexible.

So my takeaway:

 To survive change, you need strong roots—values, principles—and you need flexibility. Without both, you’ll break.

Jocelyn Allen:

 That’s a brilliant illustration. Absolutely love it.

Maria Melfa:

 Joe, as we wrap up—what advice would you give someone going through significant change right now?

Joe Jordan:

 Here are my five closing pieces of advice:

1. Lead it from the top—this is non-negotiable.
2. Overcommunicate—you can’t say it too much.
3. Give everyone a voice—people support what they help create.
4. Create the right environment—people need trust to move forward.
5. Don’t stop—keep going until the change is fully internalized.

It’s not easy, but it’s possible.

Maria Melfa:

 I’m putting those on my whiteboard.

Jocelyn Allen:

 And now…it’s time for the TTA 10!

🎵 It’s the TTA 10…ten final questions for our guest! 🎵

Jocelyn Allen:

 Joe, these are fun, rapid-fire questions. You’ve got 90 seconds. David will play a song if you finish in time. Are you ready?

Joe Jordan:

 Bracing for it.

🎯 TTA 10 Highlights

• Trade lives with anyone? → Jules Verne
• 6 + 2? → 8
• Skip from morning routine? → Drying hair
• TED Talk on ice cream? → “One of my favorite things when it comes from a really good place”
• New McDonald has…? → AI
• Word to define? → Fabulousness
• Garden gnomes? → Creepy, but I’m Scandinavian so I’m supposed to say cute

David (Producer):

 Joe Jordan: TTA 10 Champion. And in your honor, we’ve prepared a Texas-themed honky-tonk tribute.

🎵 He’s not from Texas, but if he calls it home… Joe Jordan stands alone. From boardrooms to campgrounds, no place too small… Finding Joe’s a great deal—just like Monty Hall… 🎵

Joe Jordan:

 I’ve never had a song written about me. I’m honored.

Jocelyn Allen:

 Your new tagline: “When you're in the South—this is important—get some barbecue and call Joe Jordan.”

Maria Melfa:

 Thank you, Joe. What a fantastic episode. For more information on bringing Joe’s change management programs to your organization, visit:

thetrainingassociates.com

All:

 See you later!