Bring Out the Talent: A Learning and Development Podcast

Empowering Leadership: Fostering Workplace Confidence

• Maria Melfa & Jocelyn Allen

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Unlocking the secret to success often begins with a single step: building confidence. It's a critical component not just for individual growth, but as the cornerstone of effective leadership. In this episode of 'Bring Out the Talent,' we are joined by Velera Wilson, founder and CEO of Positive Identity, a company that helps people gain the skills to lead with greater confidence in their career. Together we dive into the heart of leadership, confidence, and the transformative power of both in the workplace. We explore the ripple effect of a leader's confidence on their team, the journey of building a resilient self-assurance that empowers individuals to lead effectively, and so much more.

 Tune in as we unravel the tools leaders need to navigate their roles with confidence and inspire those around them to do the same.

SPEAKER_03:

Bring out the talent. Bring out the talent.

SPEAKER_01:

Bring out the talent. Welcome to Bring Out the Talent, a podcast featuring learning and development experts discussing innovative approaches and industry insights. Tune in to hear our talent help develop yours. Now here are your hosts, TTA's CEO and President Maria Melfa and Talent Manager Jocelyn Allen.

SPEAKER_04:

Hello, Jocelyn. Hi, Maria. Welcome back, my friend. It's great to see you.

SPEAKER_03:

How are you doing? Great. Seems like it's been a while. We're starting a new season right now. We sure are. Season six. So let's get started. Unlocking the secrets of success often begins with a single step, building confidence. It's a critical component, not just for individual growth, but as the cornerstone of effective leadership. In this episode of Bring Out the Talent, we welcome our special guest, Valera Wilson, who is the founder and CEO of Positive Identity, which is a company that helps people gain the skills to lead with greater confidence in their career. We will dive deep into the heart of leadership, confidence, and the transformative power of both in the workplace. We will explore the ripple effect of leaders' confidence on their team, the journey of building a resilient self-assurance that empowers individuals to lead effectively, and so much more. So let's get started. Welcome, Valera. Thank

SPEAKER_02:

you so much, Maria. Thank you so much, Jocelyn. Good to be here.

SPEAKER_03:

Excited to have you here. It's always such a great topic. And I think we all can do better at gaining more confidence and being more effective as a leader.

SPEAKER_04:

Agreed. I think it's one of the defining kind of qualities of a leader is that confidence and the ability to lead effectively because you own what you're doing. And we've seen in our industry, of course, that the transition to leadership roles is is a really pivotal role or moment rather in somebody's career where it can either make or break their confidence and their effectiveness overall. What are some of the challenges in the work that you do that you've observed during transitions and how have they sculpted the leanership journey for those that you work with?

SPEAKER_02:

Sure, I mean, and it's either sculpted or maybe could have guard. the leadership journey as well. Unfortunately, that's a duality and reality. I would say the first thing is training and development or lack thereof. Oftentimes what I've found is that people put into leadership roles were great at delivering results as individual contributors, right? So however, we know that there's a big difference between working as an individual contributor and being a people manager. And so that's, It's often forgot that leadership is a skill that must be developed. And so for someone that's new or transitioning to leadership, investing in their success is investing in their training to help them shift to becoming a better and effective leader of people. So that's one thing I would say. I would say the other is, you know, maybe not having the right examples. Having the right examples is important, especially or even in the workplace. And so depending on an environment, A new leader may develop certain traits or habits, or I would even like to say coping mechanisms to thrive. So they may see examples of leaders that are advancing or getting away with certain behaviors and assume it's okay to mimic or that that's what's required to be successful as a leader. But the reality is that may not be true based on their personality or their style anymore, might also negatively impact the team that they're leading. And so that's another thing is just having the right examples. And I would say the third is probably self-perception, which is probably the most important one. With the promotion becomes greater visibility and scrutiny, which can cause a lot of things for a new leader. Maybe the desire to be perfect or to be perceived as having it all together can be incredibly overwhelming and counterproductive to their success if they don't manage that. self-perception or self-confidence appropriately.

SPEAKER_03:

And I could see that being so much more highlighted when you go from peer to manager.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. Oh, gosh, that's another example. I mean, because the fear of stepping on toes or people questioning, well, are you better than me? What makes you think you're better? We were just at the same level. So a lot of those questions that might pop up in the person's head when they were previously a peer could cause them to even second guess themselves and not make short decisions that they might need to concerning their peers when they become their people, their leader.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes, and you can see that has so many dimensions to it because it might not be the leader with the new leader with the issue, but the person that maybe was left behind for the promotion and that person might never respect the leader even though They did before because of being passed up. So it definitely could be a complicated situation.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, then it can make things more complicated for that particular leader, right? Things that were easy to get done now get stalled. And decisions that are easy, quickly to get made don't for a lot of different reasons. And just having an open, cooperative person on the team can just negatively impact the rest of the team because people can see it, perceive it, sense it. and can just have ripple effects that are absolutely counterproductive.

SPEAKER_03:

Absolutely. Very much so. I know that's one of the greatest lessons I've learned in the 30 years of TTA, how just one negative person can bring down the whole group, even if they're high performers. So it's just so important to address that. And then just obviously in this case, it would undermine the new leader. So just cause a tremendous ripple effect.

SPEAKER_04:

Right. And to the point, I think, Valera, of the work that you do, we've seen positive impact have the same ripple effect. So it is really insightful just to see that the trust and the relationships that can be built in the workplace and then the impacts that is felt based on those relationships changing, whether it's positive or negative, that professional emotion I'll call it, is being shared. So this person feels differently about their relationship with this person because that is now their leader. And I didn't have that relationship prior, but should I be feeling differently about this person now too? Because now my colleague feels this way about my former colleague, now manager. So am I unaware of something based on that feeling? Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So it's interesting to see that it could be negative or positive. It's just what are we allowing to take hold first? I think because because then you have to stop the train as it's moving. Right.

SPEAKER_02:

Agreed. It has to be addressed. And to your point, it's it's all subjective and individual because I think oftentimes the perception or the change in dynamics is often between the person that believe they were supposed to get the role versus maybe the person that they didn't want the role. They're happy not to care. taken on that leadership responsibility. So they still have, they're happy to be in the supporting cast, if you will, and let that leader take the front and center before the person that believe that they should have. That can be what the rift happens. And I think to your point of addressing that sooner than later becomes really, really important between that new leader and that peer to figure out how do they work harmonious together.

SPEAKER_04:

So how are we doing that from the vantage point of a leader's lack of confidence, like wherever it's coming from. Maybe this leader feels like awesome about their promotion. If we're talking about the scenario that we keep mentioning, they feel great, but then they feel the feelings and they're like, oh no, maybe I'm not that great. And there goes their confidence, the imposter syndrome, right? Maybe that's like a reference that you speak to a lot in the work that you do. But how does that morale change that's now affecting the confidence of the new leader? even more so change morale overall. What are we doing to address that and how the culture feels now with this ripple effect that we're talking about?

SPEAKER_02:

Sure, and it could go either way. Obviously, the goal was for it to go positively. And I would say the big piece in terms of how leaders believe, self-belief or lack thereof, ripples through the team is, first of all, it's decision-making. If they don't have the confidence, Or if they do, if they don't have it, it's going to take them longer to make decisions or address challenges impacting the team, right? So that can stall the team's progress or which absolutely impacts their morale and engagement. If they have the confidence, they're able to make decisions faster and address challenges head on that impact the team. They then start to be perceived as the leader, which boosts the team's progress and absolutely impacts their their morale and engagement. So in the scenario we just talked about it, they're so on the team that is the dissenter because maybe they're still frustrated they didn't get the role. If that new leader confronts and addresses that issue head on sooner than later, it starts to signal to the team, oh, wow, she's really one about business too. She's going to do what's best for all of us and not let the dissenter continue to control the narrative or the temperature of the team. And so it just really, creates another level of respect across the team. I think the other thing too is self-belief or lack thereof. Whether a new leader or not, I've seen this show up in a number of ways, but if the leader isn't confident in themselves or the degree to which they are confident in themselves is the degree to which they often will shine the spotlight on the rest of their team, appropriately to give credit for their work and advocate for their advancement. So when you have a leader who believes in themselves, they often will cascade that belief to others and say, I believe it, you know, you're doing great. They'll showcase, they won't take credit for things that maybe they didn't do, but they'll give the appropriate credit to the team member who did. They'll advocate for that person's advancement as well if they're ready to take the next step. And so It's just a ripple effect of whatever they believe about them. It's going to either help them to promote or hinder the advancement of others on the team. And then ultimately, that belief then impacts trust. That leader doesn't have the confidence. They're not going to have the trust of the team because the team can see that either decisions are being made slow, they're not being advocated for or supported, and that just diminishes trust and respect overall.

SPEAKER_03:

Great information. And a lot of this plays into psychological safety. So the organization making the leader feel comfortable, is it okay that they make mistakes? How does everybody else perceive mistakes? And a lot too with humility, right? As a human being, I know I've learned over the many years that it's okay not to have all the answers. It's okay not to be perfect because I did assume many, many years ago that I did have to have all the answers. And if I didn't, then I was not good enough. And now I realize, you know what? I could go ahead and say, you know what? I don't know that. I am clueless on this area. I want to learn more. I mean, I certainly have a growth mindset and I'm not, it's not like, okay, I'm not going to do it because I don't know about it, but I will always want to learn more and grow. But I also know what my strengths are and what my weaknesses are. So it has a lot to do with, yeah, so we're talking about psychological safety here, resilience, self-awareness. So it just plays into so many different areas here.

SPEAKER_02:

Very true. Very, very true. It's interesting. You brought up psychological safety and not having, not feeling like you have to have all the answers. To me, that speaks to culture. And because where does that come from? Where do you believe or where do you get the belief that you have to have all the answers? Oftentimes that comes from being in meetings and rooms where leaders are put on the spot or called to the car because they didn't have all the answers or whatever the case might be. So it becomes really important. Going back to the point I shared earlier is having the right examples. What is the behavior of a leader? What is, does the leader need to have all the answers? I completely agree with you that they don't, but in some cultures or some environments, if that's that belief permeates, then that leader feels incredible amount of pressure to feel like they have to be on and perfect all the time, which cascades the team.

SPEAKER_04:

Yep, I agree. I think that to both of the points, when you have a leader who isn't open to that sort of thing or really holds true to the belief that I need to have all the answers and therefore I will, it the team receives a kind of like a dictatorship. Like they're always being told what to do instead of being collaborated with on what should we do. And I think that it is, it's all developed in your culture because I've been, I've worked for both places, right? And what you allow people to do in their role by just doing, because by doing, you're going to make mistakes. And then what you want, you don't learn anything if you don't like get, ruin something at some point in time. You know what I mean? If everything goes well, that's that's when trouble starts happening is because you don't know what to do when it doesn't. So, yeah, I think it's just the vision that you create by being open to learning is something that enables people to feel more wanted and therefore more confident and even more prone to be like leadership is like is for me. Like I want to be in this role with these people and who are thinking with the mindset that I like to of like, I want to continue to learn and be better. Oh,

SPEAKER_02:

great. And I think that's, you mentioned, what does that say? Like if leadership doesn't look attractive because all you see is the stress of needing to be perfect and always be on, who wants it? I will let it. Perfect. And I think sometimes what we perceive as people's lack of engagement, lack of interest is the fact that there are environments that they're not painting the right picture of leadership and what it really means. So it's not a great billboard for leadership. What it is, is it's a billboard for stress and undue pressure that they just don't want to be under. And for anyone that we talk about the failure or having that openness as a culture, that breeds the critical thinking skills, right? Which fosters leadership or the ingenuity that people can come up with ideas and it doesn't have to be perfect or figured out.

SPEAKER_03:

Absolutely. So Valera, when you look back at your accomplishments, what do you think was one of the biggest things to help you build your confidence?

SPEAKER_02:

It's hard to narrow it down to just one thing. I would say a couple things. One is staying focused when developing my expertise in my craft. So it was really important for me to continue to do that because for me, And what I find a lot for others is competence breeds or at least helps confidence, right? When you know something, you tend to be a bit more confident, right? We talk about imposter syndrome, but the reality is if I know it, I'm going to be able to show it. It's going to show up in my work and in my speech, in my authoritativeness or my declarative statements that I make about the work that I do. And so that was really, really important to me. And what I found over time is that I would be in rooms where people would be the quote unquote leader who would be talking and talking and talking. And sometimes they may not be accurate statements. And so I begin to think, wait a minute, I'm doing this work. I know this isn't right. Let me share my perspective. And because if he or she is sharing their opinion, then I guess I need to share mine too, because no one's right in the room. So that was the first thing is focusing on developing my expertise. And the second Really critical one is having people that were my champions and cheerleaders. So whether it was a mentor or peers, having people that believed in me and supported the work that I did. So if I was having a bad day or bad moment or felt down about something, I could go to them and talk to them and they could remind me of what I do know, challenge me on the areas that I didn't know and help me get back in and win. And then I think the last thing for me is just referring to past wins and successes. Right. I think that can really help us in moments of doubt, because it's easy to forget all the great that you've done when you're faced or you're staring failure or fear in the face.

SPEAKER_04:

What what do we do to cultivate confidence in the scenarios that not like not unlike most scenarios where kind of like the making of a leader is left to chance or to luck? Right. Like they're being put in a position that they're adds value in the form of like developing you along the way to the possibility of being in this role, in these roles. So you're not necessarily saying that person's confident. Let me enable them to be a leader, right? So how do we cultivate it if that's not the start of the process where we're trying to intentionally create that in our emerging leaders?

SPEAKER_02:

One is some of, it's a mix of some of the things I think we've been talking about, which is one, two, three, to have a level of openness or encourage idea sharing across different levels. So if it's an emerging leader that the company believes has potential and is aspiring, encourage idea sharing. Bring them into meetings and spaces and rooms where more strategic conversations are happening. Allow them to hear what's going on so they start to get the 360 view. what a company is about and what they're doing. Allow them the way and give them that exposure to how the decisions are being made. And then I would say, give them an opportunity to be able to stretch assignments and work alongside other leaders. Then I would say the other thing is to commit to, which we've talked about, you mentioned it as well already, Maria, is failure. I think it's committing to embrace failure as an opportunity. and not an indication of incompetence, right? When people are afraid to say something or to do something wrong and fail, it stalls their contributions and definitely their confidence tremendously. Because if I'm sitting in the room and I'm nervous to say anything because I don't want to say the wrong thing and be called out, or I don't want to say the wrong thing and be shamed or considered incompetent, I'm not saying anything. I'd rather you keep my mouth, what's the saying? I'd rather keep my mouth closed and you swim me afoot than me to open it and prove you right. I think that's the same thing. And so commit to embracing failure as an opportunity. So what are the opportunities where they can work on an assignment and it not work? And then how are they perceived and received? And are they coached and mentored in that moment? And then third is when they do something right, recognize and celebrate it, right? So what you reinforce or commend usually gets repeated. And so I think those are some key ways to to develop it and cultivate confidence.

SPEAKER_03:

It is so true. And it's sad that we don't realize that until we get a little bit older in our lives. I wish our kids realized that. I see my, I have a 18 year old daughter and a 24 year old son. And I know if they perceive that they have failed in something, it's just very devastating for them. And we try to tell them, okay, it's part of growing up, just learn from it. But I think that it probably took me until my mid-50s, and now I'm 85. No, I am not. I feel that way. Don't I look good for 85? You look like an 18-year-old. Well, it's funny. I always say that when people lie about their birthdays, when people are 50 and they're like, I'm 30. I'm like, that's wrong, because then people will look at you and say, wow, you look horrible for 30. So when I turned 50, I told people I was 80. And then they're like, OK, great. She looks great for 50. So I mean, great for 80. So people have it wrong. That's a positive idea. Yeah, exactly. Absolutely. Absolutely. So yeah, so it is unfortunate that it takes a while, but it is true. I know looking at my professional career, especially, I could look at sometimes where I'm like, oh, wow, like we decided to do this. And it turned out that that wasn't the right thing for the organization. The first time it was probably, oh my God, I failed. That was so devastating. I'm like, okay, great. We quickly pivot and realize that didn't work, but that's what business is. It's constantly pivoting and focusing on what's important now. And that's a whole nother area. So one thing that's in evident, right? Or evident. One thing that's evident. Okay, let me change that again, David. One thing that's evident is change, right? We're always gonna be dealing with change and uncertainties. So how do leaders help their team deal with so much change and the uncertainty and still stay engaged?

SPEAKER_02:

I would say in that situation, engagement is about, when I think of engagement, I think of coming closer. And the first thing that I believe can foster that engagement is to communicate, communicate, communicate. It's so important during times of change in order to bring people closer to communicate. Because when left to uncertainty, people will come up with their own stories, which may or may not be true. Or, and if it's not true, will likely decrease their performance and engagement. And so I think it's important during those times of uncertainty, just like GPS, to communicate over and over again and more often check-ins might be needed to increase assurance during those moments. And it can be done strategically because I realize I've been in various leadership roles where there's some things you just can't communicate yet to the organization, but the degree that you can and what you can, it's important to communicate it and do that in a cadence that might be more often than typical. I would then say the second thing is to continue to set the vision around why the change is happening and what it will bring and paint it in a very positive light to instill confidence because when people can have a North Star, something that guides them during what often is that tunnel of transition that can be really messy, it gives them hope that, okay, I'm working towards something and it's going to be better on the other side of this messy middle, if you will. And something else that I've seen has worked well is to celebrate milestones or earmarks of progress. so that everyone can take a moment to acknowledge that there are one step closer to the goal of the transition. If it was a goal to increase efficiency or to help make faster decisions in an organization, whatever those milestones are, those little wins, those low-hanging fruit moments that can be acknowledged or celebrated, I think it's important to do that, to just keep everyone motivated and working towards

SPEAKER_03:

the goal. Those are all excellent, excellent examples.

SPEAKER_02:

And it's so hard, right? It's so easy to say not to do it because you're caught in the moment of the change and trying to figure it out and navigate it. But I think it's so important to really do that because it's almost like trying to move a ship. You've got to make sure that people are coming along and feeling good about it. And if they aren't, address it sooner than later. And obviously, you may not convert some people ever. They may not ever be happy about the change and you'll find that all over time. But For those that genuinely want to just know, hey, because most people just want to know, how does this change impact me? Does it impact me negatively? What does it mean for me long-term? What does it mean for the things that I need to do in my own life personally? All those things become important. So keeping that in mind, it makes it really important to communicate to people the value of the transition throughout the transition.

SPEAKER_04:

So what about sustainability for something like this, especially transition? post-change. Because if you're going to try to enable your leaders to build and instill their confidence, that in and of itself is a time of change and could be a piece of uncertainty for people. So let's say that's a catalyst and then we maintain it and we're good and people feel really confident. What's sustainability look like? How do we continue to to boost and maintain what was created, but yet make it agile enough that by the time the next thing comes, you've adapted it and confidence is reinstilled or confidence still exists.

SPEAKER_02:

One thing, one way to do that is to have a feedback loop system, I believe is really important. So you might have an idea, right? And Maria, you mentioned, okay, you might have thought it was great to go down a path and then realize, oh no, it's not. How do you find that out? You find that out through your people. And so a lot of times change is implemented, but by the time it cascades down to the various levels of the organization, they're the ones still in the pain of that change. And no one's asking them, how is it working for you? Or is it not working for you? And so I believe the feedback loop system will help and get the pulse check of, is the change having the desired positive impact that we intended it to? If not, what are the roadblocks? What are the bottlenecks? What are the issues? How do we address them? How do we mitigate them? And then make that a continual process or iteration. And I think too, as people start to see that, okay, my concerns or whatever, my challenges are being addressed, they'll be more willing to share what the other challenges are, especially if leadership is responsive to those challenges. And the change will continue to be iterative. And so let's say it doesn't work at all. They'll know. I was heard. My feedback helped us not go down a path or not continue down a path that was not good for us as an organization. I wasn't just told to implement the change. I was a part of the change. And so I think you get better buy-in moving forward there.

SPEAKER_03:

Excellent. Such great information. So what strategies do you recommend for our listeners right now that are trying to build a culture that promotes engagement, confidence, growth, all the above? Where do they get started? I

SPEAKER_02:

would say get started with their people, right? Encourage them. Some things we've said, I've already put it on a bow. I would say one is to encourage input from all levels of the organization. That's really, really important, particularly around your aspiring leaders. Bring them into the strategic conversations. Give them an opportunity to hear and to weigh in, to provide input, be a part of stretch assignments and opportunities. So basically encourage that input, but then also bring them along for the ride so they understand the whys and what is being done so they understand the big picture and get behind it. And then I think I can't stress it enough that create a culture where Failure isn't fatal, right? But it's an opportunity for learning what to do or what not to do next. That's so important. Maria, I feel like you've heard it, and Jocelyn, you just said the same. I've been in cultures where that wasn't the case, and it just completely curtailed any creative thought and contributions, which is not the point of business, right? And then finally, and very important, is to invest in training and development so people are skilled in their roles, which ultimately increases their confidence. So I would say those are probably four things I would say an organization could do to encourage, whether it's through offensive engagement and growth. Drop the mic.

SPEAKER_03:

You're excellent. I'll break our podcast mic. I drop it, but that was really, really good information.

SPEAKER_04:

The next part of our journey together, Valera, starts now. with the TTA 10, okay? Okay, let's do it.

UNKNOWN:

All right.

SPEAKER_01:

It's the TTA 10, 10 final questions for

SPEAKER_04:

our guest. All right, Valera. So the TTA 10 is a really fun part of our show where I ask you 10 really playful questions, rapid fire. Answer them as fast as you can instinctively, okay? That's what makes it fun. If you answer them in 90 seconds or less, we will celebrate you. If you fail to achieve this, we will positively not celebrate you, okay? It's all in the name of good fun. And we'll see you next time. And it's meant to just bring a little bit more of you to the podcast, things we don't know. So with that, I have my questions ready and I need to know if you are ready. I think so. Let's do it. All right, cool. David, we need the clock set to 90 for seconds.

SPEAKER_01:

All right. The TTA 10 clock is prepared. Jocelyn setting it for 90 seconds beginning now.

SPEAKER_04:

All right, Valera, if you were a superhero, what would your superpower be? Flying. What's your favorite breakfast food?

SPEAKER_02:

Acai bowl.

SPEAKER_04:

If you could choose a theme song to play every time you entered a room, what would it be? I

SPEAKER_02:

Am Every Woman by Whitney Houston.

SPEAKER_04:

If you could launch a new app for your phone today, what would it do?

SPEAKER_02:

Mute everything.

SPEAKER_04:

What is your favorite song to listen to at the moment?

SPEAKER_02:

My favorite song, Victoria Monet's My Mama.

SPEAKER_04:

If animals talked like humans instead of making sounds, what would a cow say?

SPEAKER_02:

Move over.

SPEAKER_04:

If you won a million dollars, what would you spend it on first?

SPEAKER_02:

Rest and trips.

SPEAKER_04:

Finish this phrase, the way to my heart is... Food, travel, and music. Name a game show that you think you could definitely win.

SPEAKER_02:

The Price is Right when it was on.

SPEAKER_04:

On a scale of 1 to 10, how good are you at cannonballs?

SPEAKER_02:

All

SPEAKER_04:

right, great. That's 10 questions, David. I don't know. I got a good feeling about this. So can you give us the official verdict,

SPEAKER_01:

please? Wow, it was over practically before it started. But for the record, drumroll, please. Drumroll, please. Valera Clarkson with the time of one minute and two seconds.

SPEAKER_03:

Smoking fire follows her trail. My goodness. I'm not surprised. I knew she would blow this away. Blazed through it.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, we do have a salute for Valera and it's appropriate, Jocelyn, that the first question was if she was a superhero because you didn't realize Valera is a superhero. In fact, covertly when darkness falls, she has an alter ego and a Apparently there's a film being made that's coming out this summer. We have a copy of the trailer here, which I'm going to play.

SPEAKER_00:

coming this summer. In a world plagued by doubt and insecurities, one woman rises above the chaos to lead the charge for change. By day she is Valera Wilson, a beacon of strength and resilience who emerges as the unexpected superhero in a battle for confidence and success. By night she transforms into Captain Marvelous, the one positive force in the universe that can transform anyone into a marvelous specimen of confidence and leadership. From humble beginnings to industry recognition, Valera Wilson's As the youngest woman to shatter glass ceilings and secure million-dollar contracts, she embodies the spirit of perseverance and innovation. But when darkness threatens to overshadow light, Captain Marvelous must harness her inner power and lead with unwavering courage. As the world looks to her for guidance, she emerges from the hardscrabble streets of Atlanta and proves that true leadership knows no bounds. Join us on an epic adventure Yes! See if that is

SPEAKER_04:

Favorite feature of AI is the pronunciation.

SPEAKER_02:

You

SPEAKER_04:

are phenomenal, my friend. Thank you so much for this amazing information and a really great episode. For more information on leadership development and fostering confidence in your organization, visit us at the training associates.com. We'll see you later.