Bring Out the Talent: A Learning and Development Podcast

The Learner's Journey: Fostering Engagement at Every Turn

• Maria Melfa & Jocelyn Allen • Season 5 • Episode 66

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A recent study by Udemy revealed an interesting fact: 80% of employees feel more engaged at work when they're learning new skills. Yet, despite this clear desire to learn, keeping learners truly engaged remains a significant challenge for L&D professionals. It's not just about providing learning opportunities - it's about making those opportunities engaging and relevant, so that learning becomes not just a task, but a meaningful part of every employee's work life.

 In this episode of 'Bring Out the Talent,' we welcome Adam Weisblatt, a learning strategist known for his dedication to crafting learner-centered experiences. With an incredible background spanning 20 years in various facets of workplace learning, Adam brings a wealth of knowledge and hands-on experience to the table. His journey, which has led him from being an instructor to an eLearning designer and programmer, has equipped him with unique insights into the creation and implementation of engaging projects.

 Tune in as we discuss a range of topics, from harnessing AI to tailor learning experiences to navigating the intricate balance between digital and in-person training environments.

SPEAKER_00:

Bring out the talent. Bring out the talent.

SPEAKER_01:

Bring out the talent. Welcome to Bring Out the Talent, a podcast featuring learning and development experts discussing innovative approaches and industry insights. Tune in to hear our talent help develop yours. Now here are your hosts, PTA's CEO and President, Maria Melfa, and Talent Manager, Jocelyn Allen.

SPEAKER_00:

Hi, Maria. Hi, Jocelyn. She's going to hate you for that.

SPEAKER_02:

What else is new?

SPEAKER_00:

Just kidding. Maria's not with us today. We have our dear friend, Johnny Boy, as I lovingly refer to him, helping me co-host the episode today. How is it going, Johnny?

SPEAKER_02:

it's going extremely well how about yourself jocelyn

SPEAKER_00:

hanging in there i'm excited to be here and for the topic that we have discussion wise today because as this talent resource that we have as part of our tta family network of resources is a wealth of knowledge on engagement and providing the learners with the journey that they want to be on for their training so Without further ado, let's talk about the learner's journey, fostering engagement at every turn. A recent study by Udemy reveals an interesting fact. 80% of employees feel more engaged at work when they're learning new skills. Yet despite this clear desire to learn, keeping learners truly engaged remains a significant challenge for L&D professionals. It's not just about providing learning opportunities, it's about making those opportunities engaging and relevant so that learning doesn't become a task, but a meaningful part of every employee's work life. In this episode of Bring Out the Talent, we welcome Adam Weisblatt, a visionary learning strategist known for his dedication to crafting learner-centered experiences. With an incredible background spanning 20 years in various facets of workplace learning, Adam brings a wealth of knowledge and hands-on experience to the table. His journey, which has led him from being an instructor to an e-learning designer and programmer, has equipped him with unique insights into the creation and implementation of engaging projects. Together, we'll discuss a range of topics from harnessing AI to tailor learning experiences to navigating the intricate balance between digital and in-person training environments. Very exciting topic at hand. So welcome to the show, Adam. Thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_03:

Thanks for having me, Jocelyn.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, it is absolutely our pleasure. And as it was said in the intro, engagement, engagement, engagement, engagement. We're never going to stop talking about it because learning is not going away. And as long as it's here, we need to make sure that we feel it, right? We have to feel something when we're learning something. Yet it continues to be a top challenge for many L&D professionals, whether it's engaging the learner or providing really engaging learning content. So how do you effectively address these challenges? Can you talk about why you're so passionate about this subject matter?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, sure. So I work not only in instruction and instructional design, but I work in helping companies with their operations. And so much energy is put into measuring what they call butts and seats, people showing up to attendance. And yes, you do have to show up in order to learn from a learning experience, but there's a lot of ways to not show up, even though your body is sitting there. There's a lot of ways to be very checked out. And especially after the pandemic, when we had to move everything to online virtual sessions, there's really no way to stop people from checking out, looking at their email and doing whatever they feel like doing. So we still have to have impactful learning. And the only tool available to us is how we make the content more engaging so that they can't help but get involved.

SPEAKER_02:

Working with many clients, we're getting feedback all the time from L&D leaders, and we keep hearing they lack sufficient time, staff, budget, I mean, you name it, to successfully deliver training. And we're hearing more and more that they're turning to AI to aid in this challenge. So in your experience, how has the integration of AI affected engagement levels in learning and development?

SPEAKER_03:

Well, the team, you have to remember about AI and what it produces is very similar to when back in the age of the dinosaurs, when we got copy and paste, everyone was like, oh, great. I don't have to retype that. I just copy and paste it. But all of us know intuitively when someone has overused copy and paste, you can just read something and just, you just know, it was a copy and paste error. And that feeling we have about that is the same feeling we have about AI. We see some content where all they've done is just copy and paste from chat, You can tell just the way the wording is. That doesn't mean that chat GPT or copy and paste are a bad tool, but you just have to know how much to use it. The thing is, is that, yeah, we're understaffed. We need content. And there's always been that dream of customized content. Well, customized content takes a lot of time unless you have a tool, an AI tool to help you out. So I think it's just, really given instructional designers more, just more power to create content. But with power comes great responsibility.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, the responsibility piece is kind of something that I'm interested in because I've seen AI in a lot of the recruiting tools that we use now, which it lends to the experience and how you're communicating a certain message, right? And our team uses a lot of platforms that have these tools integrated into them. So we can take something like a job opening and interpret a certain message back to somebody's resume and pick out points of why you're matching them to them. So it even takes some of the guesswork But then I look at it and I'm like, oh, you pulled every single piece of like my title from my resume and I don't need somebody saying like, hi, I'm this person with this extra long title name, like, you know, because then it looks like AI. So what do you do to kind of take on that responsibility, like in order to make sure that AI is a helpful tool versus one that almost like requires more work? because you're going back to it to kind of edit something that you would if it even was your own. I know that was like a loaded question, but I think you understand where I'm going with it, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I think a lot of it has to do with the prompts that you use. A lot of times I'll kind of, Figure out what it is I want to say. What are the main points? And then ask ChatGPT how it's been said in the past, right? Because basically all ChatGPT is doing is just remembering everything that's ever been said. And so if I say, tell me about this topic, but I'm very specific in narrowing down what I'm trying to get back using good prompt tool, engineering tools, then I get something that is very specific, but has a lot of rich context. I go and double check the information, make sure it's actually true and they're not making it up. And then I rewrite it with my voice and I'm still shaving off like days of work so I can get good content out there. I think that chat GPT gets you a big part of the way there, but you've got to take that last mile.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

That makes a lot of sense. It's like you're still personalizing it. You're still putting human, for lack of a better word, touch into it to make sure that it reads and it feels a certain way.

SPEAKER_03:

And there's also new technology that's coming up that people are using that will, in a secure way, send specific data from your computer situation from your company, from whatever you're doing and apply that, add that to the prompt to go to chat GPT. So when you, when you get the information back, it's actually customized to the situation. So you could, you could have several different versions for each of the different roles that you're trying to reach, but all in the same course.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, very, yeah. Very interesting. And kind of leads into the, like the next question I have, because it's, it is about personalizing and kind of like multi-checkpoint SOMO. So how, because we know that custom learning paths are incredibly effective when somebody, I mean, when it comes to people's preferences, the food that they eat, the movies that they like, it all has to do with like what feels right to them. So why isn't like, why wouldn't learning be exactly the same? So in what ways do Within your programs, how would you create custom learning paths, whether it's with AI or anything else, within programs to ensure that they're catering to individuals at a learning style level, at a preference level? And what does the impact look like when you're doing this and creating custom learning journeys for people?

SPEAKER_03:

Right. So there's kind of two ways to go about it. There's career paths. What are the different things you need to do to do the tasks, to do your job? And then there's relevant, making it relevant so that it's engaging, which is what this is about. On the career path one, I think everyone's been very focused on job roles, but job roles, if you've got a company with 10,000 people, there's 10,000 job roles. They're all very vague and on purpose. And so you're never going to be able to make a formula that says, as if this is the job role, this is the thing you do. But tasks, we all do tasks. Our resumes are full of tasks. Our job descriptions, our performance reviews, our LMSs are all full of tasks. And those tasks could have microlearning attached to them. You just put them together for the particular role and give it to them. On the engagement side, A lot of times with engagement, I'm a learning technologist, but I really like to step back from the technology itself and figure out what you're trying to do. And the best way to do that is to go back to instructor-led training because that's that real visceral human with humans thing. So when I'm teaching a class, the first thing I do is ask people what they do all day, what's their job. And then throughout the class, I'm saying, oh, hey, Jocelyn, how does that, what I'm teaching you right now, what does that look like in your world? And I refer to the thing in your world doing this particular job that you do, how does what I taught become relevant? And that always gets people very engaged in the instructor-led world. In the learning path and self-directed learning world, it's the same thing. You're trying to say, take this environment that the person's in, the context, and put that into the course. The problem is that if you have too many options, too many different variations or scenarios, it's hard to manage. At some point, you have to simplify it. Like if you have 10 things you're trying to teach people, but 40 different customizations, it's a problem.

SPEAKER_02:

During COVID, we saw a lot of the training shift virtual. And Now we're on that pendulum swing back to in-person. We're seeing a healthy mix of both. And pretty, I mean, we're very curious about what are the specific challenges that you have seen and as far as keeping learners engaged in both in-person as well as more remote or virtual settings as far as training delivery is concerned?

SPEAKER_03:

So I... They're definitely great advantages to being in person, but I've been working from home for 10 years. So long before the pandemic, I was very used to presenting in environments like this. So I don't, I see the same issues that people have. say, oh, I've got to run to a meeting or they are checking their email, even if you're in person. And so my feeling is that you can't be the engaged, the attendance cop. You really need to be the performer, the person who's trying to get people so excited that they want to be involved. And what I find works the best for that is mixing up telling and and doing, so there's got to be a certain, after a certain amount of time of me explaining something, I want to get right to, okay, let's try this out. And I think the other thing that helps a lot that people don't talk about in L&D much is humor. Think about all of the instructors that you've had that you've really liked, the high school teacher or the college professor who was just fantastic. And The thing that you remember about them is that they were very irreverent towards their material. They were always making sarcastic remarks about the stuff that they wanted to take you seriously. And I think that that gets people to really feel connected to the person who's doing the teaching. Humor is a very powerful tool. In my last engagement, a part of the course that was designed before I got involved, where they had to tell this story from ancient Greece about Archimedes and the golden crown. And it's kind of a dry story and you're not quite sure why it's relevant. And I tell this story in the most goofy way possible because I really wouldn't be able to pull it off if I tried to tell it seriously. But I keep them involved, even though I'm doing material that's normally not so easy to do. And I think that that happens in both online and in person. In person, then you've got the dynamics, the social dynamics of being in person, people coughing, going to the bathroom, wanting to get to the snacks and so on, or being hungry or sleepy. But to me, it's the same.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm a huge proponent for humor in learning, period. I almost struggle sometimes with why it wouldn't be appropriate. And I'm not saying in a sense that I make inappropriate jokes, because I don't. I know the lines between John. I know the lines between what... works and what doesn't work in the sense of the type of humor that you use I think that's definitely a line that you have to draw if you're even going to attempt something like that but is is it can I really say that like no use humor anywhere like who doesn't love to smile like if you're having a serious meeting and you find like just a way to walk I was in a meeting the other day that was like about some very important details for a large project and somebody said something about travel components and like managing aspects of our services to cover travel and like project management. And they said like, there's going to be a lot of air traffic control, like to make sure that these things go together. And it was a very serious conversation. And I was like, I chimed in and I was like, yeah, literally and figuratively. And everybody was like, ha ha ha ha ha. And I'll get reset. And it's just like, I'm literally looking for those opportunities and it wasn't inappropriate, but tell me, is there a time and a place where I shouldn't even be doing things? simple as that? Or is humor welcome anywhere you want to use it, especially for learning?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I mean, you have to be careful that it's not cringy. But even so, I think people have a really wide view of what they're doing. So it's fine. One company I was at, people knew that I'm a big Muppet fan. And when I was leaving, they actually gave me as a present a Muppet version of myself. It looked like me. And

SPEAKER_00:

with it, I

SPEAKER_03:

created this alter ego called Henry who hated everything because I'm a pretty positive guy. And very often I'm involved in big rollouts, global rollouts of software nobody wants to use. People don't come in in the morning and say, oh, an LMS, I can't wait to use it. And so other HR tools. And people said, we've got to find a way to get people who don't want to do this to do it. And so I made these videos of my puppet, Henry, complaining about the software and saying he didn't want to use it. And the other people on the video had to convince him that it was a good thing. And it was a big hit because it disarmed people because it was giving a voice to what people were thinking, which I don't like this. And I think that humor has a great power to do things like that.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, now everyone knows their source for angry Muppet videos. Feel free to call us anytime.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank goodness.

SPEAKER_03:

Check that off your list.

SPEAKER_00:

So we're... Another really good segue, because we're talking about humor and how it relates to effectiveness and delivery. So what other approaches do you have for dialing in, getting buy-in, overcoming any sort of reluctancy or resistance towards learning, especially online? like mandated ones. I know that that can be a big one where you do what you have to do. And there are trainings that you have to take. And those are usually the ones that we need an angry Muppet for. So what other ways can you create engagement, especially when you're up against, you have a tough battle ahead of you?

SPEAKER_03:

Right. I think that all compliance training should start with an apology. The people have work to do. They don't have time for this. And you're taking away their time for a stupid course on something that they already know. And I think you should apologize because I think that would be honest. We've always heard the what's in it for me kind of line. Well, the same thing, people's time is valuable. If you're going to tell them that they need to stop what they're doing and pay attention to you, then you should tell them what's in it for them. You should tell them this is why it's needed. Most compliance training is based on the idea that you need to make sure everyone who does a particular task knows enough about that task that they don't harm anybody. That's a reasonable thing to ask for. If you explain that in all compliance training, people would be like, okay, yeah, I guess I get that. But we'd say, ooh, look at this course. It's wonderful. You're going to have such a good time. No, you're not. It's terrible. It's boring. But if you said, look, this is why it's important to the company, people will go for it. Another thing is make it shorter. That would help. And I really like to stay away from bullet points. You know, the one that I just cannot stand is in this course, you will learn A, B, and surprisingly C. I got that joke from Mark Lassoff. But what I like to do is to state why you need to learn something, explain a situation where it would come up, explain what you need to know to not have that problem, and move on. And in between, I... if you've got a lot of text on the screen at some point you need a screen that's just a picture of a reaction or a situation or something again back to the humor some sort of meme-like thing that would get people to go oh right this is about such and such because That text is a killer. As soon as people see those bullet points, they just are checked out.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I agree. It just doesn't read as effective, honestly. Engagement is a huge part of effectiveness, but I look at bullet points and I'm like, it really does set the tone for the training. So if you're going to kind of put that sort of energy into the development of said materials, then you're going to get the same kind of participant when you're actually going through it. So, I mean, you said that, like the bullet points things, and I was like, yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. Because when I'm reviewing stuff like that, it's like my, it's not, it's not my favorite stuff. It doesn't excite me, period. So, I mean, and I've seen, I've also seen the trainings where you get that random photo after like, especially like a really long kind of like part of the lesson that maybe has, has a lot of information to cover. There's nothing you can do about it. And it does, it completely resets. I remember those moments of my training and therefore remember what happened right before it too. So just, just, I mean, you're onto something, Adam, from somebody experienced in it, I'd say you're, you're hitting the marks for sure.

SPEAKER_02:

Cool. So Adam, I know, well, I shouldn't say I know, I suspect when you're facilitating that you have a pretty good feel for the engagement level in a classroom or maybe even online, kind of those cues. But is there a more objective way that you can think of to measure learner engagement? And how do those metrics inform your approach to developing or adjusting training programs in the future?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, it is hard because I think that measuring that people showed up or even that they could answer a multiple choice test or they could fill out a form that says, yes, the room wasn't warm. Those are very limited proxies for engagement. And my feeling is good learning should let you do something you haven't been able to do before. And this is something where AI is going to be able to help. I've developed a assessment in AI where I had the learner give a very unstructured answer to a question and had the AI figure out whether they really know the material or not. And because it has that great natural language processing, it was able to do it. And I think we're going to get away from these all of the above types of multiple choice questions. I think we can get a much richer experience. But the best one is if you could have people do tasks, especially if you're doing like a multi-day course, have them do some tasks together online and see that they're actually able to engage and use the information that they had. But back to what you had said about the cues, you cannot miss those cues. And your whole course, your delivery is dependent on it. I've seen instructors who just will just bulldoze right past it. I was teaching a class recently where it was design thinking and design thinking is a very different way of looking at things. And I was trying to get people to talk about how they would use the tools I'm using. And this one guy, it was a lot of IT people who are very literal. There was one guy, an engineer, and he just was stuck on going right to the technology. What are the security protocols? Or which network service are you going to use? And Kubernetes and all sorts of tech terms. And I finally said, okay, we have to stop. And I actually stopped my course and completely redid it. I said, we need to use metaphors to talk about how you're going to shift your mind to this new way of thinking. And I would not continue the class until I knew that he was getting the point because I knew the other people who weren't saying anything were in the same boat. And so I think if you don't have the engagement, you've got to stop and get it before you move on.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And the previous talk about AI has me thinking about sentiment analysis. That's been seeing some new tools that are able to discern based on facial expressions and tone of voice kind of engagement level. So it wouldn't surprise me at all if in coming years, we're going to have some interesting tools to measure this.

SPEAKER_03:

Right. The thing with measurement, you've got to don't measure anything you're not planning on acting on. I think that we get so excited about measuring these things and it would be great. The sentiment analysis, all that, that really would have a fundamental change in L&D if we acted on it.

SPEAKER_00:

And that's a great point because it's, I mean, we're, on a day-to-day basis, we're talking about how often these things are changing and what tool has evolved to now do this instead of only this, especially in the world of AI. So is that the direction that it's going? Is like AI is going to continue to enhance itself, like realistically, and that's how we get the future, the innovation behind things that we're already doing? Or is the future of AI learner engagement different? Are there other things that may come about when we're talking about trends that lead us down to what this looks like 5, 10, I mean, tomorrow from now?

SPEAKER_03:

I think there's going to be a fundamental change. I've never seen an industry that is more obsessed with its own demise as the learning and development industry. Everyone's always talking about learning is going to die any minute now, but they've been saying that since the age of CD-ROMs. That's going to kill instructor-led training. They've said it about just about any new technology and innovation. I do not believe that AI is going to stop humans from making and delivering learning. I think it's going to be a tool, and if you don't have that tool... you're going to basically have your hands tied behind your back because it is going to make a fundamental difference to what a human being can accomplish. Because human beings are limited. They can only do one thing at a time. They can only create one thing at a time. And they can only research one thing at a time. Whereas AI has the research from terabytes and terabytes of data. And I think that the important skill for learning development people is that prompt engineering, the ability to not only get AI to tell you what you need to know to move forward, but also to teach other people how to use AI as a learning tool. I

SPEAKER_00:

think there's a lot of discussion to be had around how to use AI. AI in general I think that there's there's so many ways that you use it I mean there's silly things that exist just to like make people smile and like people are using AI or to see like what Hogwarts would look like if it was based in Baton Rouge Louisiana and like these these things that are just like oh wow it's really cool that you can do that that I I don't think people understand still we're very still in that very early adoption phase of like what can Can this really do? And therefore, what do I need to provide to it in order for it to give me the results that I want? Because that's half the battle is that it can't do anything without us. And so you have to be very well versed in the information that you're inputting in order to yield the result. Where does that start? Are we going back to basics and doing something like a needs analysis to get things started? In which case, AI can't do that on its own because it has to have a starting point. And that's where our part in the game will never go away. There's just so much conversation to be had around that tool as a whole.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, go back to your compliance. What would it be like to have to... follow environmental health and safety rules on the Death Star in Star Wars.

SPEAKER_00:

I like it. I like it. Well, let's see. So what would you give as we wrap up before we get to the fun stuff? What would be your kind of like final send off for people listening and saying, you know what, engagement is a concern of mine, but I don't really know what to do to get focus on that and start enhancing the level of engagement for my learners? What do they need to do first to even get this snowball rolling?

SPEAKER_03:

I think the thing people need to remember is engagement is what happens between humans. The technology is only a lever. It's only a tool that that that gets you in a place where you can do something, but it's about humans and it's about empathy. You've got to remember what it was like to not know the material and you have to have empathy for these people who have a job to do and they took time out of their job to listen to what you have to say. You really have to be passionate about giving them something of value. And I think if you do that, if you give it from the heart, something of value, something with empathy, then it's going to be naturally engaging. The technology can enhance that, but it can't recreate it. I

SPEAKER_00:

love it. Very well said, Adam. Thank you for the insights. I'm looking forward to getting more insights into you and who you are with our final segment of the show, the TTA 10.

SPEAKER_01:

It's the TTA 10, 10 final questions for our guests.

SPEAKER_00:

All right, Adam, my favorite part of the show, the TTA 10. This is a fun little ditty, not about Jack and Diane, but rather about you. OK, I'm going to ask you 10 seconds or I'm going to ask you 10 questions. You have 90 seconds. And if you answer them well, because there's no right or wrong, but we do judge the answers that you provide and you do that in 90 seconds or less. David will have a little outro for you, celebrating you. If you don't do it, well, it'll sound a little bit different, but it's all in the name of good fun. So, are you ready to play? Sure. Sure. Yes, you are. I hope I'm fast enough. You are. You're going to be great. David, let us know when you've got 90 seconds on the clock, please.

SPEAKER_01:

90 seconds on the TTA 10 clock, Jocelyn, beginning now.

SPEAKER_00:

All right, Adam, what was the best job that you ever had?

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, shoot. I was the Easter Bunny.

SPEAKER_00:

Who would you cast to play you in the biopic of your life?

SPEAKER_03:

Mandy Patinkin.

SPEAKER_00:

What is the best way to wind down at the end of the day?

SPEAKER_03:

Walk in the woods.

SPEAKER_00:

If there was a fourth little pig, what would he build his house out of?

SPEAKER_03:

Four-dimensional vectors.

SPEAKER_00:

What is six plus two?

SPEAKER_03:

Eight.

SPEAKER_00:

Marco.

SPEAKER_03:

Polo.

SPEAKER_00:

What TV show do you recommend to people when they say they want something new to binge?

SPEAKER_03:

Obama's Working.

SPEAKER_00:

How much is that doggie in the window? I

SPEAKER_03:

only know how much the gorilla is in the window from McGilla Gorilla.

SPEAKER_00:

Where is one place on earth that you've wanted to travel to, but you haven't had a chance to go yet? Greece. Jenny, Jenny, don't change your number. What is Jenny's number?

SPEAKER_03:

8-6-7-5-3-0-9.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, Adam. All right, there's our 10 questions. David, verdict, please.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, it was a rocky start, but it's not how you start. It's how you finish. One minute, 22 seconds, well under the threshold.

SPEAKER_00:

Eight seconds close. Way to go, Adam.

SPEAKER_01:

Nicely done, Adam. GTA 10. The

SPEAKER_03:

reason I was struggling is that I actually told you my worst job. What the heck.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I don't think we don't have rules for taking points off. I mean, I think David already created the outro, so I guess we'll just stick with it.

SPEAKER_01:

It's too late to turn back now. Well, as we record this, we're just a couple days removed from the Super Bowl featuring Usher, and so we thought I could channel my inner hip-hop here. And instead of rapping like Ludacris does, we're going to rap about Adam today. Hey! Watch out, Adam's so prodigious and learning, he's just so prestigious. And wow, his insights really make you see this guy's more clever than ChatGPT. Forget about AI, he'll speak the truth. He might use robots, but he'll make real breakthroughs. He's got jokes, real humor bombs, dropping knowledge like a holy man reading a psalm. How about a joke about a man from Nantucket? Or if you're lucky, you might meet Henry the Muppet. Yeah, how you like him now when his idea's worth more than any crown? Let's brainstorm, he's the one to lead. Thank you. That was impressive. Very impressive.

SPEAKER_03:

David.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, Adam, right? I think you need a new website with that as the welcoming song. Thank you very, very much. This was a fun conversation. I can't wait to use humor in everything that I do, whether it's AI related or not. And this was learner engagement is the most important topic that we have on hand right now. So I can't thank you enough for joining us and think it's a really great episode for our listeners.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm so glad I joined. Thank you both, all three of you, for making it a great experience. It was a lot of fun. You got

SPEAKER_02:

it. Our pleasure, Adam. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00:

For more information on Adam and fostering engagement and learning, visit us at thetrainingassociates.com. We'll see you later.